Belgian Miniature Martini

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martininut	Belgian Miniature Martini	Lead	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 951 (01/20/09 21:08:27) Hitch Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Today was like Christmas again when the postman delivered my new toy. It is a Belgian made, true miniature Martini .22LR rook style rifle. It is interesting in that it looks every bit a Greener, quality and all, but the Liege proof marks and the NOT ENGLISH MADE stamped on the receiver give it away. It does have British proof marks on the opposite side the the Belgian ones. At some time, the bore was reemed and lined with a Parker Hale liner.....and that bore is in mint condition. The two leaf express sights are not marked, so I will have to take her to the range with marked distances to gauge the sights. It has lovely basic engraving around the receiver, and even the screws are engraved, along with the lever and trigger guard. The top of the barrel has been filed flat and engraved to cut glare. Best of all, it has a cocking indicator on the side and the Greener style safety works perfectly. I couldn't discern and makers marks......Gert, would you mind taking a look and giving me your best guess? Anybody else have any idea who might have made it? Hitch
The Double D		#1	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 4680 (01/20/09 21:19:45) Moderator Emeritus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yeah but those sure look like British proofs. DD ******* To find things Martini go to:Martini Internet Resource List**
Bill Curtisra		#2	[-]
Sergeant Major Posts: 156 (01/21/09 02:37:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Made and proofed in Belgium, retailed in England where it has been reproofed as a foreign import possibly because the full set of Belgian proofs may not be present ? W. S. Curtis, A.C.I.I., Vice President (Hon.), Crimean War Research Society, HBSA (Hon. Life), Assistant Curator, Museum of the National Rifle Association, Whitworth Rifle Research Project, MLAGB, NLRC, ATRA, &c.
martinirick		#3	[-]
Sergeant Major Posts: 423 (01/21/09 03:55:38) Colour Sergeant Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Why the Not English Made Stamp? Was it something done in England when it was proofed?
Bill Curtisra		#4	[-]
Sergeant Major Posts: 157 (01/21/09 04:44:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This dates from the period when any manufactured object that was not made in the UK had to be marked as either "Empire Made" , "Foreign", "Not English Made", or some variation thereof. A detailed study of the relevant legislation, statutary orders made under that legislation, etc., etc., just might indicate a date bracket, if anyone wanted to waste the time looking. W. S. Curtis, A.C.I.I., Vice President (Hon.), Crimean War Research Society, HBSA (Hon. Life), Assistant Curator, Museum of the National Rifle Association, Whitworth Rifle Research Project, MLAGB, NLRC, ATRA, &c.
The Double D		#5	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 4682 (01/21/09 07:45:50) Moderator Emeritus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It would not be a waste of time to research this. If this sort of thing could be used to date a firearms it would be very useful especially when importing these firearms into the U.S. and For tranfer between collectors in the U.S. For import it could help indentify importation before 1899. Since it is a mark for commercial purposes it would establish it as a not military and it could be imported by a Dealer FFL. If the rifle could be dated it could also establish that it is more than 50 years olds and could be imported and transfered by a C&R FFL. DD ******* To find things Martini go to:Martini Internet Resource List**
Fred	Proof Marks	#6	[-]
Sergeant Posts: 51 (01/21/09 09:39:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Note that the barrel is marked 230 on the LHS and that the rifle is now sleeved to .22. Surely this is a straightforward Belgium made import in 297-23 which has later been sleeved to .22 and then proofed as such in England? Fred.
Bill Curtisra		#7	[-]
Sergeant Major Posts: 158 (01/21/09 11:02:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes indeed. If this is a .22 sleeved into a .297/.300 then the new British proof marks will have been legally required when the sleeving was done in the UK. W. S. Curtis, A.C.I.I., Vice President (Hon.), Crimean War Research Society, HBSA (Hon. Life), Assistant Curator, Museum of the National Rifle Association, Whitworth Rifle Research Project, MLAGB, NLRC, ATRA, &c.
joelblack88		#8	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 387 (01/21/09 16:58:59) Sergeant Major Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Bill, I have owned some Tranter Saloon pistols marked ,230 that are chambered for .22RF Long. I always assumed that .230 was the early British designation for .22. All of the .297/230s I have are .222-.224 bore. A .22RF could be rechambered to 297/230 without being relined. The firing pin would have to be altered of course.
Bill Curtisra		#9	[-]
Sergeant Major Posts: 159 (01/22/09 03:36:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This would still put it "out of proof" under British Proof Laws thus making it liable to reproof. Incidentally, the .230 RF designation along with .22 RF and 9mm RF are the three cartridge chamber sizes which remain subject to the Firearms Act and are not treated as permitted collectable obsoletes. W. S. Curtis, A.C.I.I., Vice President (Hon.), Crimean War Research Society, HBSA (Hon. Life), Assistant Curator, Museum of the National Rifle Association, Whitworth Rifle Research Project, MLAGB, NLRC, ATRA, &c.
Viclav		#10	[-]
Sergeant Major Posts: 421 (01/28/09 08:33:37) Colour Sergeant Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You can tell this particular rifle is an antique because of the earlier Liege proof mark... ELG star in an oval was used up to 1893. If you want to find out who made the gun, remove the fore end and look on the underside of the barrel. There will likely be some initials, if not a name. Check them out against info on this website: http://www.littlegun.be/a...ans%20identifies%20gb.htm Victor "Always carry a firearm east of Aldgate, Watson."
The Double D		#11	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 4689 (01/28/09 08:40:54) Moderator Emeritus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Craig, If you need repair parts for this gun, I may have some. Douglas ******* To find things Martini go to:Martini Internet Resource List**
martininut	Belgian Martini	#12	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 952 (01/28/09 20:00:27) Hitch Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Took her to the range today, well at least the 25 yard indoor range. Off hand with my shaky hands, she was shooting about 3/4 of an inch at 25 yards. Just waiting to get time to go out to the outdoor range and bench test her. Everything functioned flawlessly, including the safety, until I switched it to fire......yep, it fired all right, without me ever touching the trigger. Silly me for thinking one of those Greener style safeties would actully work. Makes a slick thumb trigger though. DD, I will strip her down and see what it needs, but other than the safety, it functions perfectly and the trigger is quite nice......no creep and lets off at about 3 pounds of pressure. Thanks for the offer on the parts.......she kinda reminds me of that sweet little miniature martini you have that you throw up every now and then to make me drool.......which would be in my possession if it werent for that darned Rat Terrier of yours that guards the gunsafe......
martininut		#13	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 953 (01/28/09 20:53:15) Hitch Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	No initials under the forearm.........

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