577/.450 sizing problem

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slumlord44	577/.450 sizing problem	Lead	[-]
O/R Posts: 6 (11/14/08 20:11:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Just got a new set of Lee dies and new Jamison brass. My buddy who does my reloading had a very difficult time trying to resize the new brass. He has been doing this for a long time and is very detail oreintated in his work. Almost sounds like the brass is oversized or there is a problem with the dies. I tried the brass in my rifle and it chambers and ejects easily. Any one got any ideas before I call Lee??
The Double D		#1	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 4376 (11/14/08 20:50:40) Moderator Emeritus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Why would you want to call Lee. What was the problem he was having sizing the brass the first time? How about after it was fired, any problem then. Here is my guess and it's a good one. Most likely the Jamison brass is made to CIP standards. Lee Dies are not made to CIP standards but are made purposely to size the brass under size so it will fit in almost every Martini chamber. DD ******* To find things Martini go to:Martini Internet Resource List**
RichardWV		#2	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 625 (11/14/08 20:57:18) Sergeant Major Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Two other points. I assume your friend annealed the brass first? If not, the very hard brass would be a bit difficult to size down, particularly if not using sizing wax.....which is highly recommended for cases of this large size. If the brass chambers in the rifle, you should only be doing neck sizing (back the die off a few turns), otherwise you will be over working the brass and considerably shortening its life.....which at the price of brass is a bad thing. Full length resizing is only called for if you are changing brass between rifles or the case no longer chambers freely in the rifle it was last shot in.
slumlord44		#3	[-]
O/R Posts: 7 (11/15/08 20:42:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks for the input. My friend and I talked about possibly neck sizing only. This makes sense and confirms our discusson. It never hurts to get other opinons before messing up expensive brass. Do I neet to aneal the necks before neck resizing. The first case with the problem was not anealed.
RichardWV		#4	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 633 (11/15/08 21:14:22) Sergeant Major Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Jamison brass is pretty work hardened (but not as bad as Bertram), so I would always recommend annealing them before use and after every second or third firing. Compared to typical smokeless loads shot in chambers with tight dimensions, large BP cartridges in general and the 577/450 in particular are shot in chambers of varying but almost always very generous dimensions. As such the brass goes through a lot of expanding and resizing....even if only neck sizing, much less full length resizing. The Lee dies being one size fits all just makes this that much more so. While one can get away with ignoring annealing for a while, the odds are strongly against getting to reload number 5 unless you anneal. Besides, the annealed softer brass also makes the loading process easier.
Mick Kelly		#5	[-]
Lance Corporal Posts: 54 (11/17/08 14:28:50) Lance Corporal Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Talking of annealing; is it better to use a naked flame or dip your brass (577-450 & 577 Snider) into molten lead, does one method have advantages over the other?
RichardWV		#6	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 640 (11/17/08 18:16:20) Sergeant Major Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'd rather get in a discussion of politics or religion than on the correct and only way to anneal. That said there is a fairly decent article at: http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/jun96cases.html From my perspective for low pressure BP cartridges, if it works for you and doesn't soften the head of the case, go for it.
Tacolneston		#7	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 917 (11/18/08 12:17:45) Veteran of the Regiment Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I gave up on the dip method after something went wrong with a batch and half of the cases ended up with traces of lead soldered to the necks.
trfuller		#8	[-]
Corporal Posts: 51 (11/19/08 09:13:52) Lance Corporal Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My preferred method for annealing is place the decapped cases in a pan of cold water, with the water level up to the point you wish anneal; use a hand torch to heat the cases one at a time, then tip over into the water to quench the case. If you are doing a lot of cases, change the water frequently so the quenching remains uniform.
The Double D		#9	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 4395 (11/19/08 09:31:45) Moderator Emeritus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Trfuller, you method is the tried and true method and has been used by many for years. I use to be one of those many. Unfortunately when you get to the larger cases suvh as t he Martini there is a real chance you won't get a uniform anneal unless you have some way to rotate the cases. Take a look at the Ken Howell article link above posted by RichardWV and get some ideas on how to do it. We also have a post on this forum that is full ideas on tools the fellows here have made to deal with these issues. Here is the linkhttp://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/2642 DD ******* To find things Martini go to:Martini Internet Resource List**
trfuller		#10	[-]
Corporal Posts: 54 (11/24/08 21:44:38) Lance Corporal Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks for the link. Fascinating the different solutions to the same problem!
Fred	Annealing	#11	[-]
Sergeant Posts: 41 (11/25/08 12:07:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I made a turntable fron two scrap pieces of aluminium by turning a spigot on one of them and drilling a matching hole in the other. The top piece was drilled on the side (cylindrical section) and tapped for four equally spaced bolts which stick out. I fill an old dish with water and set the turntable in the middle. The case is placed in the centre and the table rotated by an old screwdriver, held in the left hand, pushing on the sticking out bolts. The case is then heated by a blowlamp, held in the right hand. When hot, the case is tipped into the water by the screwdriver. For small cases which heat up quickly and uniformly, several can be placed on the turntable at a time. An absolute must have accessory for Bertram brass. Fred.
Tacolneston		#12	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 922 (11/25/08 12:14:04) Veteran of the Regiment Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Fred, The chaps at Leyland always did rate you highly as an engineer. I use a 2" deep stainless steel cake dish on a sheet of melamine, and turned by my fingers. Nothing like as smart, but it works. Last Edited By: Tacolneston 11/28/08 11:56:41. Edited 1 times.

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577/.450 sizing problem

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