Morris Tube for MH in Miniature, Rook and Cadet Rifle Forum Forum

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Morris Tube for MH

Author	Comment
Fletcher57	Morris Tube for MH	Lead	[-]
O/R Posts: 15 Sep 21 08 11:36 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None I recently acquired this Morris aiming tube at a gun show. It is marked "PRIVATE SALES" and "MORRIS PATENT" along with serial numbers and proof marks. It measures 34 1/4 inches in length and is overall in very good condition. The rifling is dirty but looks good. I was also lucky enough to pick up some loose ammo as well as a box of Kynoch dated 1900. Inside the box were 60 rounds and a caution sheet on tube installation and safety. I plan on cleaning the tube and taking it to the range for some test firing very soon. I've included photographs.
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Jim Durling		#1	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 774 Sep 21 08 12:10 PM Lance Sergeant Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Nice piece of kit, you are very lucky to find the ammunition as well.
Bill Curtisra		#2	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 2306 Sep 21 08 2:37 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Don't shoot it all off as you will never be able to replace it and it must be worth quite a lot. These cartridges are designated .297/.230 Short. A similar but longer version is the .297/.230 Long. W. S. Curtis, A.C.I.I., Vice President (Hon.), Crimean War Research Society, HBSA (Hon. Life), Assistant Curator, Museum of the National Rifle Association, Whitworth Rifle Research Project, MLAGB, NLRC, ATRA, &c.
Fred	Morris Tube	#3	[-]
Sergeant Major Posts: 547 Sep 22 08 3:05 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Agree with Bill--the ammo is very collectable. You can easily make 297-23 short out of .22 Hornet brass. Fred
MichaelNH		#4	[-]
Posts: 7521 Sep 30 08 4:24 PM Autocrat Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I wish there were an emoticon for "green with envy". Cheers, Michael I've never heard anyone complain about "too much quality" in a gun, but too little will get you a trip to the ER with your spare fingers in a baggie.
freddo	Morris Tube	#5	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 1418 Sep 30 08 11:59 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Nice find ! I have never seen one for sale.Otherwise I would own one. I agree with Bill and Fred .Don't shoot your ammo off .I have a hundred rounds or so but it will never be shot off.Its too easy to make the ammo out of 22 hornet as Fred says. It would be interesting to know if it only takes shorts.In addition to the long and short rounds there is another size [at least here in Oz] Its a sort of 'super' 297/230 If your tube takes these you will blow tha cases of the smaller cartridges should you try to shoot them.Make a cast first. CH4D sell the dies for all sizes. Last Edited By: freddo Oct 1 08 12:10 AM. Edited 2 times.
The Double D		#6	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 9674 Oct 1 08 3:23 AM Moderator Emeritus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Gee, this looks like something that could be fairly simply made...say in .22Hornet Douglas "And don't forget. That isn't your Martini you have. It belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone. Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it." Malcolm Cobb, The Martini Henry Note-book ******* To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com**
freddo		#7	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 1418 Oct 1 08 7:48 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Douglas, I think you are right . there is a drawing of the aiming tube in Skennertons book on training rifles The only part that would present a small challenge is the breech and extractor part .Even that is pretty simple. A man with your abilities would find no real difficulty in making one although ,to be quite frank I cannot see a pressing need for one.My interest in them is purely from the collectors point of view.
The Double D		#8	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 9674 Oct 1 08 2:48 PM Moderator Emeritus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	freddo wrote: ...to be quite frank I cannot see a pressing need for one. freddo we are in total agreement. Douglas "And don't forget. That isn't your Martini you have. It belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone. Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it." Malcolm Cobb, The Martini Henry Note-book ******* To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com**
MichaelNH		#9	[-]
Posts: 7521 Oct 2 08 12:31 AM Autocrat Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I think I could make a compelling case for needing one in .17 HMR. It wouldn't convince my wife, but I'm sure at least a few of the stalwarts here would come around to my way of thinking. Cheers, Michael I've never heard anyone complain about "too much quality" in a gun, but too little will get you a trip to the ER with your spare fingers in a baggie.
Pinky		#10	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 1962 Oct 2 08 5:39 AM Sergeant Major Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	In a place where getting hold of even substitute black powder is getting into the realms of Rocking horse doo doo then there is a very compelling case for a morris tube in .22 hornet for both snider and MH. .22 is also easier on the geese than .58 and .450 and must be a cheeper option than a new rifle, takes up less space and is easier to get past the wife. trouble is the two rifles are vastly different lengths so would need to make a hard decision on which to go for. Pinky It is not a gun. It is not a Weapon. It is not a firearm. It is a single cylinder single stroke internal combustion engine with a free floating piston!
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Herbert Rogers		#11	[-]
Colour Sergeant Posts: 240 Oct 19 08 4:34 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	You guys really have me fired up about these Morris Tubes. Firstly I would not recommend firing off the old collectible ammunition. Apart from the collector value of the ammo, one must remember it is getting up to 100 years old or more and the brass is very thin and brittle. I purchased two of these tubes in 2006. Both are carbine length with one each for 450 MH and one .303 British. The bores in both are bright and without pitting and after patching out and lubricating inside and out for storage I thought no more about them. The rifling is the full of the bore with normal throat lead. After reading some posts on this forum I thought Hmmm! Very interesting, all I need is cases, forming and reloading dies plus bullet mould. So back to the fun room and out with the tubes to measure the chamber for long or short Morris cartridge. Neither the short or long rounds would chamber. After examination with a magnifying glass under sunlight I found the remains of neck, shoulder and about 1/8 of an inch of case body portion firmly stuck in both chambers. Using a soft brass drift I tried to push from the front end without success. Next, I half filled the chamber with molten hard linotype plus a wood screw for withdrawal and had no luck. I then checked the hardness on the chamber piece with a very fine Swiss file, where both appeared to be as hard as glass. My next attempt was successful by using a nail softened in a gas flame, then fashioned to a chisel point and used by hand to easily peel the brass away from the chamber wall. Luckily both chambers are surprisingly unaffected after being in contact with the crud and brass portions stuck fast for I don't know how many years. I would recommend this experience as an example of why not to fire off valuable vintage ammo. Cheers Herb Rogers
joelblack88		#12	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 2529 Oct 19 08 6:33 PM Sergeant Major Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Its not necessary to go to all that bother. http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,92.html I have a few rook rifles and an RIC style revolver in 297/230 that shoot with a case full of Hodgdons 777.
freddo		#13	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 1418 Oct 20 08 1:06 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Herbert. Did you take another cast of the chamber after you removed the case fragments? I think it interesting that both tubes have broken cases in them. The point where the cases have split off [as you describe it] is very characteristic of the kind of case separation that one gets when one fires a short or a long round in a rifle chambered for that, apparently uniquely Australian, 'super 297/230' Sorry I don't know the correct name for the cartridge. Ch4d do dies for all three types.
Herbert Rogers		#14	[-]
Colour Sergeant Posts: 240 Oct 20 08 2:05 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hello Freddo, My wife and I are heading off to the country visiting friends and will be back next Sunday. I will have a look at the chambering. They both take the 297/230 long so will do a cast and compare with the 297/230 Long cartridge to determine whether they are the Super version. One thing I did not mention previously is the differences between the tubes for .303 and 450 MH. For memory the .450 M-H has the chamber cut into the barrel liner section; whereas the .303 has the chamber cut in the separate chamber insert piece and not the barrel liner. When we arrive home I will confirm these facts and provide some photos. Cheers Herb Rogers
Fletcher57	Using the tube at the range	#15	[-]
O/R Posts: 15 Oct 20 08 8:43 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	This past Friday we were at the range and used the Morris tube. We installed it in a Martini Henry Mk. 2 no problem. We fired about a dozen rounds of the old ammo. Four did not fire, one hang fire, and the rest fired. We could not hit a target at 25 yards. The ammo for the most part ejected no problem, two cartridges split and were removed with a knife. It would be interesting to try it some new loads. All in all an interesting experience.
freddo		#16	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 1418 Oct 21 08 12:18 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	You may not have hit the target but all was not lost. I think you just added value to my origional bullets.
Herbert Rogers		#17	[-]
Colour Sergeant Posts: 240 Oct 29 08 8:35 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The bores in both units appear to be in very good condition. Gauged the diameter with pulled 22 rimfire projectiles and they both mike in at .220 inch. Tube outside diameter for the 303 is .301" and for the 450 M-H is .416" and .446" on the brass sleeves. The .303 has a free bore of .725" and for the 450 M-H the free bore is .015" Overall Length with breach piece fitted is 22 and 5/64 inches for the 303 version and 22 and 9/32 for the 450. Where cartridges are placed in the Morris tubes they are in the home position for head space or on the extractor sleeve. The chamber for the 303 version is in the breach piece and has a free bore of .725" whereas the .450 unit has the chamber cut in the barrel. Cheers Herb Rogers Last Edited By: Herbert Rogers Oct 29 08 8:46 PM. Edited 1 times.
northbriton		#18	[-]
Corporal Posts: 78 Nov 2 08 11:08 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Fletcher Out of curiosity how much did you pay for the aiming tube? I have been after one for years but never seen one up for sale, would love to know if it's in the sell a kidney price range! Chris
Fletcher57	Morris Tube	#19	[-]
O/R Posts: 15 Nov 30 08 1:49 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I purchased the tube for $50.00, which was a bargain. I would have paid considerably more for it.
HARC MCRRS	Morris tube images	#20	[-]
O/R Posts: 4 Mar 4 09 11:33 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	May I direct this message to both Fletcher57 and Herbert Rogers. Gentlemen, I am the editor of the Miniature Calibre Rifles reference site at www.rifleman.org.uk, and would be extremely grateful if either of you would consider giving permission for the excellent images of your Morris Tubes to be used on the appropriate pages of our HARC-MCRRS website, where they would afford valuable additional information for readers everywhere. Full acknowledgement would be afforded in whatever your preferred way. Yours sincerely, Terence Smith, p.p. HARC-MCRRS
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Morris Tube for MH

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