Using smokeless powders, which type of brass is best to standardize on? The reason I ask is I was going to buy 1000 pieces of brass and Mark II seems much
cheaper, but would I limit myslef to certain loads? Any insight is appreciated.
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Mark I or Mark II .455 Brass?
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 CurioVirginian |
Mark I or Mark II .455 Brass? |
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Sergeant
Posts: 136 (10/24/09 11:49:58) |
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joelblack88 |
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Veteran of the Regiment
Posts: 570 (10/24/09 16:03:41) Sergeant Major |
MK IIs are the way to go. It will work in any .455 while the converse is not true.
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GrantR Canada |
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Veteran of the Regiment
Posts: 2328 (10/24/09 17:57:15) Forum Wallah |
I previously used Mark I cases only ..... well, original Dominion Cartridge Co. .455 Colt cases, actually - which are essentially the same thing. That was
because they were what I had.
However, I have now pretty much standardized on Mark II cases, because they will fit the chambers of my .455/.450 Webley WG but the longer Mark I cases won't ..... strength (solid head rather than semi-balloon head), availability and cost are also factors. Any smokeless load you might wish to try will easily fit in them - right up to the original very bulky War Department smokeless load (provided you could get some cordite somewhere, that is .....  )
If you ever want to try true black powder loads, the Mark I cases might be better - but now I load BP in Mk II cases, and those loads seem to work just fine. Matter of fact, in my view the slightly shorter Mk II case is better for my usual BP substitute (Hodgdon Triple7) when I choose to use that, because volume-for-volume it is about 20% "hotter" than black powder, so a reduced-volume charge is actually preferable.
Grant Rombough
Medicine Hat, Alberta Canada ("Rattlesnake Jack Robson", Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, 1885) WEBSITE: "RATTLESNAKE JACK'S" 
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CurioVirginian |
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Sergeant
Posts: 139 (10/25/09 00:23:38) |
Well I went for it and ordered 1000 Hornady Webley Mk II cases from Graf and Sons along with a few boxes of loaded ammo. Thanks for the replies as they seemed
logical to me.
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joelblack88 |
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Veteran of the Regiment
Posts: 576 (10/25/09 16:21:49) Sergeant Major |
You must be very optimistic. I can, and do, shoot out of my office window, but I can't imagine going through that many cases.
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gcrank1 |
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Sergeant Major
Posts: 279 (10/26/09 11:45:31) |
Perhaps the logic is, "just in case...."
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GrantR Canada |
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Veteran of the Regiment
Posts: 2333 (10/26/09 12:11:02) Forum Wallah |
Yes ..... unless you meant 100 rather than 1000 ...... you must be a particularly active shooter .... or,
indeed, extremely optimistic!
I am a Cowboy Action Shooter, using two revolvers and a rifle all chambered in .45 Colt, which can require firing up to 400 rounds or so at a single event - and I doubt that I have 1000 cases in that caliber ...... 
Grant Rombough
Medicine Hat, Alberta Canada ("Rattlesnake Jack Robson", Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, 1885) WEBSITE: "RATTLESNAKE JACK'S"
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CurioVirginian |
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Sergeant
Posts: 140 (10/27/09 20:16:34) |
...Just in case the "Zombie Apocalypse" occurs I'll be ready for them...enough food, ammo and shelter and I should make it! A nice handloaded
.455 would split a Zombie's skull like a pumpkin I'd imagine! Seriously, the reason I purchased so many is I handload to shoot or is it shoot to
handload? I want to get the .455 brass at the per 1000 price while they are still available and typically I keep 5000 to 10,000 rounds for each pistol caliber
I shoot, sometimes more if brass is available. It is nice to load them up and not have to worry about ammo for quite a while and have quite a bit of variety in
loads on hand. The weakest and most expensive link in the handloading process is the primers right now as it is criminal what they are charging 1/M.
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gcrank1 |
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Sergeant Major
Posts: 295 (10/29/09 06:12:45) |
If you think the price for CF primers is bad, we just paid $6.00/100 (!!!) for Rem #11s for the caplocks.
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PJGP |
For Grant | ||
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Lance Corporal
Posts: 35 (11/01/09 06:42:10) |
Grant, you said that the longer Mk I cases won't fit in your .450/.455 WG. What model is it and what is the serial number, because I have two marked
450/455 and both take the Mk I case. One is an Army Model circa 1905 and the other a Target circa 1900.
Peter |
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GrantR Canada |
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Veteran of the Regiment
Posts: 2342 (11/01/09 07:02:15) Forum Wallah |
Peter:
It is a WG Target model, serial number 9299 ....... On further reflection - triggered by your post, following on past comments by others to the effect that their .450/.455-marked Webleys will accept Mark I cartridges - I am now thinking that my observation is perhaps attributable to my somewhat sloppy tendency to consider the .455 Colt as essentially the same as the Mark I Webley, when in actual fact I think that its standard specs do call for a case which is slightly longer ...... All (or almost all) of my "Mark I" brass is, in fact, Dominion Cartridge Co. .455 Colt brass ..... so that fact alone may be the source of my observation! Time to dig out the cartridge specs again, and go do some serious measuring ......
Grant Rombough
Medicine Hat, Alberta Canada ("Rattlesnake Jack Robson", Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, 1885) WEBSITE: "RATTLESNAKE JACK'S"
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GrantR Canada |
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Veteran of the Regiment
Posts: 2343 (11/01/09 08:20:23) Forum Wallah |
Peter:
I genuinely thank you, and all the others who have persisted in questioning my observation that my WG Target revolver will not chamber Mark I .455 cartridges ...... My epiphany of this morning - followed by the further investigation I announced in my earlier post - has revealed that it is .455 Colt cases which my revolver will not chamber ....... not Mark I cases! Turns out my assumption that .455 Mark 1 and .455 Colt cases were "close enough" was quite erroneous - no doubt reinforced by the fact that my .455 Colt cases have always chambered without any problems in my Webley .455 service revolvers - a MKV and MkVI. Of course, that is probably because service revolver chamber length (especially on the last two "WWI-era" models) was most likely made intentionally generous to ensure fit of a wide range of cartridge dimensions, up to and including .455 Colt ...... The specifications for the Mark I .455 case call for a nominal length of .860" plus or minus .010" ..... same as the earlier Enfield revolver case, in fact ..... as diagrammed here - http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/7857 On the other hand, the specs I have for the .455 Colt case give a maximum case length of .886" - not exactly a negligible difference, eh? 
Hustled myself right down to my subterranean lair and miked ten of my Dominion .455 Colt cases (.... none ever trimmed for length by this lazy sod ....) pulled at random from the bucket ..... et, Voila! Low measurement of .879" and high measurement of .888" ..... with an average of .885" ..... Clearly I have another chore to add to my winter job list ....... namely, trimming several hundred .455 Colt cases to .870" maximum length ..... Then I'll be able to return to using the longer case in all my revolvers if I choose to do so. (I tend to think that the longer case - which would reduce "bullet jump" from case mouth to the reduced diameter in the chamber, and from there to the barrel - may be preferable for best consistency of performance.) What is more, I shall "retire" the diagram I have long been relying on - which gives the specs for the .455 Colt cartridge, but which I had labeled ".455 Eley / Webley MkVI / Colt". I will henceforth use this re-labeled version - 
Grant Rombough
Medicine Hat, Alberta Canada ("Rattlesnake Jack Robson", Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, 1885) WEBSITE: "RATTLESNAKE JACK'S"
Last Edited By: GrantR Canada
11/01/09 08:56:55.
Edited 2 times.
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gcrank1 |
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Sergeant Major
Posts: 310 (11/01/09 10:57:26) |
"old dogs/ new tricks", etc........I'm glad I am still learning too! Your diagrams are most helpful, glad you post
them. BTW, after trimming cases by many means I really do prefer the simple, little Lee 'spud & cutter' If they dont list your particular cartridge often you can use a similar caliber which has a case length a bit longer than yours and grind the pin that locates thru the primer flash hole for OAL to match what you need. Compared to the regular case trimmers they are quick and efficient if powered by a variable speed drill, etc. Of course, anyone with a lathe can make custom spuds or if a smaller cal. spud has the right length make a collar for it to locate the case mouth correctly. |
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joelblack88 |
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Veteran of the Regiment
Posts: 589 (11/01/09 13:56:45) Sergeant Major |
If you clamp that variable speed drill down, you can make a spud by chucking a piece of round stock from your hardware store and using a file.
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CurioVirginian |
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Sergeant
Posts: 146 (11/01/09 23:16:51) |
Well, I am glad to see that it will be unlikely that I will ever have to trim my MkII cases and I feel better about gettting them now.
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