Trouble with S&B .303 Ammo

RSS
Email

0 Kudo

Author	Comment
martininut	Trouble with S&B .303 Ammo	Lead	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 982 (06/11/09 11:22:44) Hitch Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None The last two times at the range, I have had a case seperation problem with my excellent condition .303 Martini Enfield using brand new S&B ammo. About every 10th round, the case completely seperates about a 3rd of an inch above the base, leaving me to dig the rest out........anybody ever try and remove a broken case out of a Martini? The break is even, all the way around in a perfect circle. I examined the other spent cases and found evidence that they were about to break, in exactly the same place on the cases. At first I thought I had a headspace issue, but tried Radway MkVII loads and PMC loads. No broken cases or evidence of any damage what so ever to these other cases. I then compared an unfired S&B case with one of the damaged ones and they were exactly the same length with no evidence of stretching, even though the damage appeared as possible stretching. The only conclusion I could come to was that this batch of S&B ammo had poorly drawn cases, as there was no evidence of a headspace problem and all of the cases were obviously weak in exactly the same spot. Any other ideas? How can I shoot it if I can't see it?
Pinky		#1	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 1145 (06/11/09 12:53:04) Sergeant Major Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hitch This is just a collection of thoughts first is to look at the OD of an unfired case at the point of separation then the OD on a fired case then the thickness of the case after firing/separation. Then compare with other brands. I know that there is a general warning about using .308 cases in a Nato military chamber as there is a chance of case rupture du to he thiner .308 case needing to expand more than they are designed to A military case being thicker in the wall than civilian cases. May be S&B err on the limits of the thin side I know the rounds I fire in that one you sold me do need full length sizing each time though the next batch I am going to start a little at a time until I can get the case to just chamber then give it an extra half turn to try and reduce working the brass. the chamber is quite generous. I seem to remember their .38 ammo we used to use here seemed to split a lot had to watch out what you shot it through as well as a lot of their stuff is steel jacketed. I have been using some of that Serbian stuff Privi Partisan or something its reasonably cheep seems pretty consistent for the few rounds I have fired and seem to plenty of oomph. Pinky It is not a gun. It is not a Weapon. It is not a firearm. It is a single cylinder single stroke internal combustion engine with a free floating piston!
David K		#2	[-]
Corporal Posts: 13 (06/11/09 13:53:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Definition time: Headspace on a rimmed case is from the front of the rim recess in the barrel to the breech face when in battery. The shoulder position is not a part of that discussion. It's highly likely that your chamber was cut with the shoulder farther forward than the ammo you are using is intended for, and you are getting --in effect-- an excessive headspace type of case separation. Examine a fired case from your chamber with one of the S&B unfired cartridges, and you'll probably see quite a difference in the shoulder locations. One way to work around this problem is to use reloads only, and fit the case to the chamber. Do this by expanding the necks, in stages, up to around .35 caliber, then size them down just enough to be able to chamber them in this rifle. You may need to anneal the necks/front of the shoulders. This will give you a temporary shoulder at the base of the neck. The shoulder will fill out on fire-forming. Do not full length resize this brass. Keep it separate from any other .303, and size the shoulder area just enough to allow the cases to chamber. I would recommend using a specific brand of brass for this rifle not used in any others. David Montezuma, IA (formerly known as 38_Cal on this forum)
RichardWV		#3	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 813 (06/11/09 19:21:27) Sergeant Major Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	IMHO S&B ammo is a crap shoot. I bought 300 rounds of .243 and after 5 of the first 10 split their cases lengthwise I pulled the rest of the bullets for reloading and ditched the rest. Yes some of their ammo is highly thought of, but I no longer take the chance on their highpower rifle ammo....hence have never tried their .303.
Pinky		#4	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 1146 (06/11/09 19:33:47) Sergeant Major Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Richard at our Pistol club some of us re loaded but never S&B we used to get about 10% split on first firing and if you did reload you could virtually guarantee a 50% loss to that longitudinal split it is what it is "Cheep" and tacky and a dirty burn you get's what you pay for! Hitch see if you can find some of that Serb stuff and try it, it seems pretty cheep in UK but not too bad a quality as I said earlier though I have yet to reload any. Pinky It is not a gun. It is not a Weapon. It is not a firearm. It is a single cylinder single stroke internal combustion engine with a free floating piston!
MCQueen1		#5	[-]
Sergeant Major Posts: 213 (06/11/09 19:36:06) Sergeant Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Since other brands don't appear to have problems I would suspect the brass it the culprit. Richard's experiences seem to back that up. My only experience with S&B ammo is in 7.62X25 Tokarev. A pretty hot pistol round but no problems so far. I've saved the brass but haven't tried reloading them yet. Censorship is the commonest social blasphemy because it is mostly concealed, built into us by indolence, self-interest and cowardice. John Osborne MCQ
The Double D		#6	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 5077 (06/12/09 06:17:47) Moderator Emeritus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I haven't been able to access the english version of CIP lately, in fact can't even find it on the net any more. But take the information David K posted plus a comparison between SAAMI Spec and CIP specs and I think you will find the culprit. CIP pressures tend to be a bit high and dimensions a bit thin. For a stuck case in the .303 screw a new .410 brass bore brush on the flexible cleaning rod you got from the group buy. Push it in the chamber as far as you can until it get to the neck. You should feel it stop at the neck. This will bend the bristles back. A sharp pull of the rod handle should pull the case out. If it you can't get the brush out, just drive it out with a regular rod. If you don't have a flexible chamber rod you can also drop your cleaning rod down the bore and attach a 45 cal brush to the rod when it sticks out then pull it into the chamber. and then pop the handle of the rod and drive the case out. It's important that you use a new brass brush as the bristles are still fairly soft and will flex and dig in to the brass case walls, where a used brush will have work hardened and the bristles will break off. This have never failed to work for me and I had to a do a bunch of these when I had the shop open. Marlin 30-30 lever guns became my specialty. Douglas ******* To find things Martini go to:Martini Internet Resource List**
Tacolneston		#7	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 1142 (06/12/09 11:06:09) Veteran of the Regiment Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The S&B centre-fire ammunition I have seen has all had steel jacketed bullets and their bullets that I have seen sold for reloading have been the same. I have never been willing to use them in old guns. I know that harder alloys were used for barrels once smokeless powders were introduced, but the "value for money" of their low cost ammunition never seemed worth the risk of increased barrel wear. What do others think?
Pinky		#8	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 1147 (06/12/09 11:32:07) Sergeant Major Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tacolnston I have only used their .38 and 9mm Parabelum in modern firearms and they wern't mine I do not think I would use them in my own let alone antiques. Funny thing I was looking for something totally different to do with .303 and ended up on another firearm related forum and the integrity of S&B come up in that thread along with the Privi ammunition being reasonable ammo to use and reload. Well that is what I made out whilst being amazed at the mud slinging and bitching that was going on made me glad I found this place. Never realised so much animosity could be built up over a simple mechanical device like a lee enfield and its ammunition! Pinky It is not a gun. It is not a Weapon. It is not a firearm. It is a single cylinder single stroke internal combustion engine with a free floating piston!
gcrank1		#9	[-]
Sergeant Major Posts: 63 (06/12/09 12:05:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The polite, gentlemanly discourse of this site is truely refreshing!
The Double D		#10	[-]
Veteran of the Regiment Posts: 5078 (06/12/09 12:17:23) Moderator Emeritus Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	gcrank1 wrote: The polite, gentlemanly discourse of this site is truely refreshing! Some of use are on short leash and choke collar.... Douglas ******* To find things Martini go to:Martini Internet Resource List**
MCQueen1		#11	[-]
Sergeant Major Posts: 221 (06/12/09 20:30:13) Sergeant Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This place has always felt more like we are sitting around a table at the local tavern or in someone's living room carrying on a discussion among friends and aquaintances. It definately ain't yer average internet gun board. Censorship is the commonest social blasphemy because it is mostly concealed, built into us by indolence, self-interest and cowardice. John Osborne MCQ
80thFoot		#12	[-]
Lance Corporal Posts: 44 (06/14/09 06:41:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	yes I'd tend to agree about the lee enfield sites they can be a bit argumentative. Tavern!?! I tend to think of this forum as a bit like a Central London Gents club circa 1890, smoking jackets and pipes all round, swapping stories of safaris and foreign campaigns and pouring scorn on these newfangled "small bore" rifles, now if only we had a moustache wax section...
MCQueen1		#13	[-]
Sergeant Major Posts: 226 (06/14/09 12:48:08) Sergeant Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm good with that...as long as cigars are acceptable. Now that you mention it, when I have a drink its almost always at the local Elks Lodge...only we can no longer smoke indoors in my state. Even though the Elks is supposed to be a private club. Censorship is the commonest social blasphemy because it is mostly concealed, built into us by indolence, self-interest and cowardice. John Osborne MCQ Last Edited By: MCQueen1 06/14/09 12:54:13. Edited 1 times.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

Trouble with S&B .303 Ammo

Trouble with S&B .303 Ammo

Quick Reply