Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (PommyB) — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:31:05 GMT

Very nice rifle. Would most likely have been made to shoot a Picket or 'Sugar Loaf' style bullet.

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (gcrank1) — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:57:33 GMT

The turned muzzle could be a fitting for what has been termed a 'loading muzzle'. Not quite a 'false muzzle'
as they have alignment pins to get the FM rifling in line with the barrel rifling and engrave the projectile before
it hits the bore. There are examples of both in 'The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle' by Roberts.
The loading muzzle is a smooth taper to get, often/usually a round ball, well fitted to the bore with a tight patch
and avoid the...

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (trfuller) — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:44:45 GMT

I would say that would be a good start. A slow twist, 1-62 or slower, would indicate possibly patched round ball. 1-48 or faster would almost certainly be for a conical bullet. Remember though that in the 1850s 1-62 or 1-66 was often used with minie type ammunition, Depth of the grooves might also be a good indicator, as frequently patched ball grooves could be fairly deep while those for conical tended to be less deep so as to aid the bullet in expanding to fill the bore.

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (MCQueen1) — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:04:20 GMT

Regarding they type of bullet intended for the rifle. Wouldn't determining the twist rate of the rifling be a good indicator?

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (trfuller) — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:13:08 GMT

Off hand, i would say the "Aus..., N.Y./USA" might be Austerlitz or Ausable, NY/USA

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (Bill Curtisra) — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:01:42 GMT

Thanks for the translation. Soper seems to have been "a travellin' man". His breechloaders command a very high price when they turn up. We have one in our Museum at Bisley.

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (trfuller) — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:20:08 GMT

"Soper, William H. San Francisco+San Luis Obispo+Eureka, Humboldt Co., Cal/USA+London, Ont. CDN, geboren 1814-88. Aus..., N.Y./USA, stammend, Vater von Robert William und von William H. Soper, erw 1858. Von 1846-75 in London aufgefuihrt. 1876 fur LIDDLE & KEADING tatig. 1877 in San Francisco mit George REMINGTON assoziert <>, 4234 Washington Str. 1879-82 in San Luis Obispo. Q48;Q179 "

Soper, William H. San Francisco+San Luis...

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (Kierlup) — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 09:13:27 GMT

To further the mystery, I spoke to a local historian just a few minutes ago, who confirmed that W. H. Soper did carry on in London, Ontario as a gunmaker. He's checking further sources to try to narrow the dates, but the stamping on the barrel flat would be consistent with his having been here. Sounds like he got around a bit. Congratulations Bill, looks like you're right on the money!

I'll have to have a better look at the muzzle area to see whether there is anything...

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (David K) — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 08:28:08 GMT

I found similar information on William H. Soper in "California Gunsmiths 1846-1900" by Lawrence P. Shelton. Interestingly, it states that he was in partnership with George Remington in San Francisco between 1877 - 1879.

The octagon barrel with a turned muzzle section is pretty commonly seen on both target and hunting rifles from the 1840's onward. If it were set up for a false muzzle, there will be (usually) four pin holes in the muzzle in line with the bore.
...

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (Bill Curtisra) — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 08:03:56 GMT

Der Neue Stockel says -

Soper, William H. San Francisco+San Luis Obispo+Eureka, Humboldt Co., Cal/USA+London, Ont. CDN, geboren 1814-88. Aus..., N.Y./USA, stammend, Vater von Robert William und von William H. Soper, erw 1858. Von 1846-75 in London aufgefuihrt. 1876 fur LIDDLE & KEADING tatig. 1877 in San Francisco mit George REMINGTON assoziert <>, 4234 Washington Str. 1879-82 in San Luis Obispo. Q48;Q179

I do not speak German so I...

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (Fred) — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 07:58:19 GMT

This looks to me to be an English Deer Park rifle---if so, it is intended for patched balls.
Fred.

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (The Double D) — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 07:57:26 GMT

Reading and Berkshire are in Pennsylvannia, USA. It's an American Made rifle

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (Kierlup) — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 06:14:05 GMT

I contacted the NRA and got a very quick response, forwarded the album to their research branch, and heard from them yesterday. As suspected, not a Remington-assembled rifle. The researcher suggested 1830, 1840 range, which seems a bit early to me. Sent it along to the Remington Society, and got a reply referring me to Flayderman's, but proposing the gunmaker as Wm. Soper of Reading, Berkshire between 1866 and 1882, who also exhibited sporting rifles in Philadelphia in 1875. Jay Huber...

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (The Double D) — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:38:37 GMT

Soper most likely would be the retailer. Remington the maker. That is unless this is a reporduction, but you haven't reported anything to suggest that. Some knowledgeable person will have to identify the Remington markings as authentic. If it is a reproduction and I have no reason to believe it is, it is a very nice reproduction.

I just went digging in my library and found an old book titled The Remington Historical Treasury of American Guns and there is a gun pictured there...

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (Pinky) — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:53:58 GMT

Curiosity here!

would the turned section at the muzzle have been to fit a "false muzzle" for loading to protect from true muzzle from wear?

Pinky

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (Kierlup) — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:15:20 GMT

Thanks Bill. I was hoping to hear what you might have. The irony is, I live in London, Ontario, and I didn't seriously consider that it might have been locally made. Go figure.

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (Bill Curtisra) — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:54:58 GMT

This will be by William H. Soper of London, Ontario. There were quite a lot of Sopers in the gunmaking business in England, Canada, Australia and California. I think that the "C W" may stand for "Canada West" but I am sure our Maple-Leaf friends will know the answer to that one.

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (Kierlup) — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:20:29 GMT

http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s187/kierlup/Remington/

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (Kierlup) — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:14:50 GMT

I think it's "W H Soper" over "London C W"

Re: Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (Kierlup) — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:02:50 GMT

From what I understand, Remington didn't actually make entire rifles before approx.1850. I can't figure out why a Remington marked barrel and lock would also have the name of an English firm on the flat of the barrel. Any information would be most appreciated, and as you can guess, I would certainly like to acquire this if it wouldn't cost both arms and legs. Would certainly...

Remington percussian target rifle with pictures

feeds@yuku.com (Kierlup) — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 07:38:13 GMT

I was asked to help the owner identify this and approximate a value. It is marked " Remington" on the lock and barrel, although the top flat of the barrel has two initials followed by "Soper" over "London C W". The barrel is octagonal its full length except at the muzzle, and is .40 cal. roughly. The lock is perfect, with no rust anywhere on this rifle. The wooden rod is not a match to the rifle, too big to fit the bore. Unhappily, there is a split in the stock...